/social/ - Socialism

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It's nice to know I have a couple of socialist co-workers in my company. I love going to the pub after work, sitting next to one of them, and just steering a conversation right into them. Uh oh, looks like we're explaining to five people how girlboss feminism guest speakers are capitalist bullshit again! How could that have happened?

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*pop!*

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Well /social/, would you consider yourself a revolutionary?

>>8
I AM THE GOD OF HELLFIRE
AND I BRING YOU,

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>>8
>Max Headroom
Reminder that cyberpunk is a critique of capitalism.
Also reminder to watch Network YOU FUCKIN' FASCIST!

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>>8
*slam!*

>>5
A bit off topic, but I really think the kids are warming up to socialism or at least labour organising. It's nice to see.

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>>34
I think so too. And after the rise of the Internet, the GFC, COVID's economic and social devastation and various ongoing housing crises, it's no surprise there are so many of these 'not seen since the Great Depression' moments. The system is in serious panic.
It's hard to find objective measurements, for a few reasons, but at the very least we know for a fact that 'socialism' and even to a degree 'communism' are more and more destigmatised in the 5EYES, and that matters, even if the average person has less and less understanding of what the socialist movement actually is. There has absolutely been a general shift leftward of the vooting population, and some pretty astounding unionisation wins in the US.

I realize that a lot of these current surveys and analyses around socialism are from anti-socialist think-tanks and littered with fallacious 'gotcha's (Institute of Economic Affairs, Victims of Communism) and that colloquial definitions of socialism and capitalism are a bit wild, but it's hard not to see the numbers and smile. Line goes up, baby.

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Pro-tip: Remember to put a red handkerchief in your back pocket to non-verbally signal your ideology and find comrades in your area.

>>34
>>61
I much prefer this than the opposite, I gotta admit.

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Fun fact: Since June, the (equal) second tallest flagpole in the world hoists the Soviet Union flag.
Not so fun fact: It flies alongside both the Russian Federation flag and the Russian Empire flag.

>>61
It's funny to think that in early 2019, I was in the mindset that socialists were nihlistic, just waiting for a crisis or disaster to shake the stability of the status quo.
All it took was a novel SARS variant to cause a major global depression. Thanks, porky mass media. Truly a sparrow moment from the capitalist class decimating their own followers.

>>66
Communism and Marx shows up surprisingly often in IASIP. Not regularly, but a few more times than expected.

>>77
I'm not deep into the show's context enough to know who writes what, although I do recall the interview with Glenn Howerton in GQ, 2018
<Obviously between Dennis and Jack, you've got a good repertoire of these very fragile men that speaks to, fortunately or unfortunately at the moment, a very specific and timely kind of person. What is it about this mindset that you like to explore as an actor? It's not exactly toxic masculinity, is it?
>It's not quite toxic masculinity. I would say, when it comes to Dennis there's a certain degree of toxic masculinity, but I think it's more... You know what I think it is? [The characters are] an interesting parallel to what I think is wrong in society in general, which is, it's the most extreme version of someone who is out only for themselves. In a weird way, here we are in a free market economy, in a democracy, you're given permission to get whatever you can get, as long as you're acting within the confines of the laws, you're encouraged to. "Hey, if you can go make a billion dollars, go make a billion dollars."

>And that's great in theory. But I do think it lends itself to a mindset like "Yeah, I stepped on a couple heads on my way, but I didn't break any fucking laws. So fuck you. Fuck you." And that doesn't build communities, it doesn't lead to happiness. And yet we still celebrate it. We celebrate money and we celebrate people with massive egos. I need to satirize that because it makes me so fucking angry. I want to satirize that because I want you to see what you think makes you happy fail. Dennis is Donald Trump having failed. Donald Trump is Donald Trump having succeeded. You think that guy's fucking happy though? That guy's fucking miserable. And yet the people who actually buy in to the Trump brand, they aspire to that. They're like, "Yeah, man, see! He is the perfect example of the American Dream." Right? And, yeah, he is.

>But those of us who know that that doesn't make you happy look at it and go, "Oh, fuck. We need to reexamine what the definition of the American Dream. Because that guy sucks." But he was taught the same fucking things we are. In a way, you almost can't blame him. He happens to be the most grotesque version of it.

<If you can get your name on fifty buildings, you do it. If you can become President, you do it.
>Even if it makes you miserable! The ones that are quote-unquote “lucky” enough to reach their desired position in life, they look back and they go, "Why aren't I happy? I'll just go get more. I'll go get more."

>I always wonder, "Those billionaires, why are they still lobbying? Why do the Koch brothers care about lobbying the government for their fossil fuel companies? What else could you possibly need?” So then you go, "Oh, it's not about that. It's not about money. It's about some fucking massive, gaping hole inside your soul that you can't seem to fill any other way."

<I think they're also just terrified of change. Of the system they gamed becoming unfamiliar.
>Ah, I think you're right, man. They don't know what else to do.

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>>77

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>>81

>>34
With society so atomized, I wonder if there is a real opportunity for labour organizing, rather than work, to become the new community centre.

>>34
Even labour organizing can be effective gateways into the socialist movement. And, to some degree, the recent war protests have been a source of exposure. In my experience, socialist orgs and trade unions are the ones visible taking actual activist action, even if it's just simple petitions or trade blockades.

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>>99
Red Jenny

>>65
I find it curious how the Russian Federation glorifies the Soviet Union, alongside the Russian Empire. It's so radially contradictory in deep and obvious ways, I'd just expect the usual tradition of the new state demonizing the old state.
Maybe it's just too blatantly obvious how great (powerful) the Soviet country was that it would be far smarter to try and recuperate it, or merely accept it as great while continuing a different 'better' path.

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>>99
>>108
Vladimir did nothing wrong.

>>115
>organized the oppressed masses
>seized the weapons of their captors
>sabotaged the tools of abuse
>refused sell out or negotiate
>refused capture and extermination
Their only flaw was being distracted by meddling kids.

>>61
Interestingly the conclusion of that study doesn't attempt to give any reasons for the generational shift, they basically just say (and I think they're generally correct) it doesn't matter if around a quarter of respondents seemingly held contradictory combinations of anti-capitalist and pro-capitalist sentiments, because the popularity of those anti-capitalist sentiments, them being normal, suggests those people have socialist 'influencers' (their analogy), friends or social media channels experts who spend a lot of time spreading these ideas, and that they're intuitively accepting those ideas. With a bit of luck, this makes far more radicalize leftwards instead of to the capitalist status quo.
There was also emphasis on their belief that the 'millenial socialism' is not a trend, unlike generations before where people generally shifted conservative regardless as they aged regardless of generation.

>>148
I'd say it's a good sign if the mere term 'socialism' is becoming an admirable label in the mainstream. I'd rather fight recuperation than refusal.

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>>99
>>115
It's interesting how Vladimir was explicitly portrayed as a justified villain, evoking empathy from one of the heroes. MLaaTR always seems to have mixed feelings whenever a socialist theme is brought up.
I'll make a thread about socialism being referenced in Western animation because even as a massive historical movement, it shows up surprisingly often in a positive light.

>>153
>I'll make a thread about socialism being referenced in Western animation because even as a massive historical movement, it shows up surprisingly often in a positive light.
TVTropes (obviously not the best source in the world) suggests that the large amount of unionization and guilds in Hollywood and other parts in the film industry helped make writers more familiar with them than much of the US population, making episodes about strikes or unions more common than one would expect.

>>10
ROAST PIG

>>82
The capitalist fears the red prole.

School student have a compulsory field-trip to the federal parliament in my country, I did the tour twice. Both times, they made a point of asking 'how often do you think the government and opposition parties agree on legislation?' The answer was over 90% of the time.
The first response is surprise, since all we see them do in the media is argue and whine about each other. At the time, I thought it was an interesting sign that the liberal system was working well.
Now, it's pretty obvious that both parties are consistently fucking over the workers.

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Finally got around to making this.

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plus4chan is on RED ALERT!

>>334
Wow, they did a great job for a quick April Fools gag. Good to see the site taking it in humour too.

>>269
It's always fascinating, and reassuring, to look back and see all the pieces fall into place. I've seen similar epiphanies on ex-cult/religion forums, realizing just how strange normal is.

>>337
>how strange normal is
absolutely, and that's why i'm always a bit concerned when someone says liberals categorically "can't be saved". some, sure, but most socialists are ex-liberals or liberals because it's the status quo default ideology before one examines the world.

Sooo what is this board's rule on trans-ideology? Is it illegal, to critisize it?

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>>381
You can read the rules page yourself YOU DID READ THE RULES, RIGHT??? but it's kind of a dumb idpol topic anyway for a socialism board. Might be considered off-topic depending on the post. You'd be better off just posting it on /leftypol/ or something.

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>hears about new socialist board
>immediately asks if they'll get banned for some idpol fixation
>doesn't even try to contribute
>goes home and cries when someone says it's a dumb topic and lurk moar

>>339
Converting liberals is a long grind, and doubly so if you don't know how to tailor your rhetoric to their material conditions rather than appeasing their lofty morals and ideals. Hard not to get burned out if you keep trying and keep facing apathy.
Apathy is the real thing that pisses people off, the delusion that politics is optional. That one can just choose not to be political of it gets too complex or confronting. It's just a conversation piece until it challenges their comfort.

>>336
Honestly, it's always refreshing when a site is comfy and not just covered in whiny /pol/ nerds who found the hobby boards. They're so easily triggered and conspiracy-brained that anything they don't like turns into the same boring tirade about da joos.
Luckily there are still a few active boards I know where they get laughed out of the room.

>>152
Say what you want about libs like Bernie Sanders, they're gateway drugs.

>>82
saved. smug soviet charlie must be cherished.

>>85
It ultimately depends on the workplace. In a large corporate, workers are often spread out pretty far geographically, some of my team is in other states, or even other countries! My friend working in the unions says it's a big hurdle when vulnerable workers are scared to talk in-office and work from home so often it's hard to organize a meeting with non-union employees.

Security probably think I'm going to all the meeting rooms planting listening devices, but I'm really just stealing all the gourmet tea packets.

>>407
giving premium tea to the visitors and cheap stuff to the workers? bet morale is through the roof there.

>>408
Yeah, exactly that. Although even other workplaces in my industry tend to give tiny office luxuries to workers. This place (despite being one of the most profitable of them) just doesn't even play that game.

>>339
>and that's why i'm always a bit concerned when someone says liberals categorically "can't be saved".
It's a silly take to say that categorically. Like you said, it's the default and many people make it surprisingly far through life without properly thinking about politics beyond vooting.

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>>406
>My friend working in the unions says it's a big hurdle when vulnerable workers are scared to talk in-office and work from home so often it's hard to organize a meeting with non-union employees.
HR loves that atomisation. Apparently some call-center employees got in trouble for talking to each other too much over M$ Teams at work. Dystopian shit, for real.

>>152
Absolutely, recuperation sucks but for a movement like socialism it's a foot in the door. Western countries look at their big bad enemy demonised by all the media and see 'Community Party', that's subliminally going to create a negative impression which isn't easy to overcome.

>>416
The truth is the word 'socialism' has been partially recuperated for about a hundred years anyway.

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>that guy says elon musk is the smartest and richest guy in the world
>reply that he's the richest and he buys the smartest guys in the world
>no they invented spacex and tesla himself
>point out that elon didn't found tesla
>no they did i researched it before buying stock
It amazes me how people can so confidently say obvious lies. Five seconds of the most basic research is all it takes to know that's not the case.

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It's amazing how easy it is for mass media to point at anyone improving their situation and make the rest of the working class envious. I remember when train workers were on strike here, people with higher salaries were whining 'how come they think they have the right to demand more money?'

>>418
Things like this just make me wonder if they're  actually delusional, or if they just have so little respect for others that they make bullshit claims to own the libs.

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>type out question about theory
>figure out the answer as typing

>>484
The answer was within you all along, comrade!

You know what I'd love? Democratically-directed education curricula.
I don't even care if it's still ultimately run by a Department of Education, if they say 'no politics or religion', or any of that. I just want a way for us to poll the workers and find out which basic critical skills are missing in society. Things like how to ask for help effectively, how to write a date properly, how to use a subject field on a website instead of writing "help! im a noob!!", basic media and statistical literacy, simple things like that.

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Made these for a laugh.

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500 posts on /social/!
It's comfy in here and the content has been good, no complaints from me.

>>500
Neat, same here.

>>493
It goes way beyond that. Basic communication skills need to be taught, beyond basic language skills. Our increasingly alienated world, overworked society and horrible education system make even core skills of society like efficient communication harder and harder to find.

Maybe this is straying away from the board topic, but I was watching a documentary interviewing various former US Government officials who sabotaged then-President Trump's actions (one could call them the 'deep state'), and various key people surrounding Project 2025, which seems to be a reaction to this deep state, aiming to surround Trump with loyal sycophant outsiders without regard for their careers as politicians in order to consolidate power under Trump.
Something which stood out among the saboteurs and other vocal critics were:
>Miles Taylor: former Department of Homeland Security chief of staff
>John Bolton: former White House national security adviser (among other things)
>Peter Strzok: former Deputy Assistant Director of the FBI's Counterintelligence Division

Maybe it's fueled by the bias of the documentary getting the juiciest interviews, but there's clearly a trend of senior members of state security being threats to Trump (which makes sense, it's they job to protect their state security). So there may be a real possibility that Trump gets elected, surrounded by idiots, the US national security gets gutted and forced to focus on local security like the southern border and internal issues.
We're already seeing some decline of the US Empire, but this would be some Tsar Nicholai II country-destroying acceleration.

Or maybe Trump will get assassinated in the name of 'national security' before the security apparatus can be ruined. Which, again, would be the CIA protecting the US from democratically-elected suicide. Not sure if that would still ignite crisis, since Vance might be able to tone things down without inflaming the loyal MAGA crowds.

>got off the tram stop as the ticket inspectors got on
Ah, you gotta love that.

>>506
Even from the cynical capitalist perspective of schools being a place to teach kids how to be worker bees, this is a big deal and with the capitalist's best interest.

>>395
Glad that they fucked off. Looked like they were just here to rant about some idpol crap. A community needs members, not people looking for a place to cry.

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>>509
It astounds me how shortsighted they are most of the time.

>>508
Nice.

>>499
Heh good stuff comrade.

>>509
It's this weird kind of hell where liberal capitalism is so inefficient it can't even promote its own best interests.
I don't know if I should be grateful it hasn't destroyed the world faster, or mad at how frustrating the whole damn system is to be in.

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Andrew Callaghan interviews (Channel 5) are often surprisingly insightful just by giving people a microphone and letting them talk until they get out of their depth. I've seen some people point out the character Borat was great at letting people get their guard down and being honest just by being weirder, more politically incorrect and pretending to be stupid, while Callaghan can do the same just by staying casual, neutral, empathising and listening, often they just rephrase someone's point back to them and build rapport. And sometimes people do end up just walking off the wharf when they think they had and argument but don't, so they just end up in uncomfortable silence or saying some non-sequitur slogan. Obviously that's not all Andrew does, but it reminded me of picrel.

>>520
>pic
I haven't see much of SHARPs myself but they did bash some fash last year when the idiots tried to attack an antifa fundraiser and got sent running up the road. Makes me think about the '43 Group documentary: "these weren't the Jews they had in mind'

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>>521
For sure. Neo-nazis like to build up an image of themselves as the master race and their enemies (when not 'brutal savages') as manipulative weaklings. It leads them to hubris.

>>522
A part of me is tempted to promote that kind of hubris, although another thinks emboldening is not a good idea, even if they end up being beaten like Patriot Front and NSN nerds typically do.

>>418
>>482
It's hard not to be offended by someone just lying like that. But it's also sad to see people who don't care about improving their own understanding of the world, who just argue to 'win'.

>>415
>Apparently some call-center employees got in trouble for talking to each other too much over M$ Teams at work.
Speaking of which, I'll try and get an update from my union comrades in the upcoming meeting. It's an uphill battle but last I heard they were making some good steps forward.

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>>528
We've seen a similar` kind of hubris at play in the ongoing British anti-immigration riots where they assumed themselves to be a 'silent majority' and called for a hundred demonstrations. Basically no-one showed for them, except for the thousands of counter-protesters.
And make no mistake, this embarrassment shakes them. vidrel is a neo-Nazi talking at a conference about how seeing a large community come out against them really does hurt. It might not even be that absurd to call this a form of terrorism, making them scared to spread their ideas in public, the same kind of chilling effect used by racists before.

>>493
Honestly, so much of what I learned in high school was just going through the cycles of proving I could learn things and answer questions. A game. It would be nice to have teachers actually (try to) explain why we needed to learn something. Then maybe people would give a shit.

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hi im new here. today i was browsing the webring when i came across this site listed. i already know about this site before but i don't know that this site is listed in THE webring together with ZZZ and etc. I don't know where to post this. it's my first time posting here. since when is this site join the webring ?

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This site was added a few days ago.

>I don't know where to post this.
Ideally in >>>/social/2
I'll move this post over there soon, since this is the board for projects and we try to keep more general topics in /social/.

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>someone posted a screencap of elon musk claiming climate change is a codeword for communism, titled 'he thinks caring about the climate makes you a commie'
>almost all the replies are "yeah im a communist"

>>532
Because nothing says "protecting the working-class" like bringing in tens of millions of ultraviolet inbred IQ-55 sandnigger colonists to replace them, amirite guise?

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>>563
Nah.
Firstly, that's not what colonialism is lol. If you want incandescent imperialist inbred imbeciles, you're looking for the Windsors.
Secondly, it's the owning class who are bringing in a reserve army of labour of immigrants, and they're trying to get away from the imperialist wars the haute booj are funding. That's why socialists are out there trying to stop our states making weapons for the wars in the sand lands and therefore stem the influx of refugees. That's why socialist organisations do trade union work to force the owning class into a half-decent deal. That's why the socialists are spreading the word that the refugees will keep coming until the working class organise and overthrow the owner class  (And, in case you're a real fuckwit, no, Starmer is not a socialist by any measure. They're a liberal capitalist.)
Thirdly, immigrants are working class. They will be treated even more like shit by the owner class than you already are. You and the immigrants have mutual class interest, and when the workers get distracted by mass media clickbait pointing the finger at the other workers, porky smiles and laughs.

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>>564
>That's why socialists are out there trying to stop our states making weapons for the wars in the sand lands and therefore stem the influx of refugees.
This tiny group in picrel that rekt a weapons factory did more to stop immigrants than EDL wankers or Tories did in the part decade. It's a systematic problem caused by capitalism and its need for a reserve army, so it must be solved by dismantling the system, not focusing on the symptoms.

Immigrants aren't here because they want to be here, and they're not going to leave when some yobs bash them. They generally think the West is a shithole. It's an individualist alienating strange place full of liberals and hyper-commercial slop and they'd rather be back in their home country, once it stops getting blown up and couped by the CIA, MI6 and IOF.

>>560
Yeah this is exactly what I was saying in /art/, so many problems all come down to how we allocate resources; capitalism.

If you take a look around and start analysing all these problems, you're eventually going to see the common issue.

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>>499
The first one is interesting. It's a fun ironic jab, but it also seems like a neat way to make subtle points about the values of socialist's societies.
You know how people say for job interviews, that if you're asked what your weaknesses are then to just say a strength framed as a weakness? That sort of trick.

>>77
It's Often Commie in Philadelphia.

>>19
>Also reminder to watch Network
The Revolution Will Be Televised!
https://youtube.com/watch?v=CuqvlMxfGA4

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Epic pranks of history.

>>108
Cool edit, is that OC?

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>>586
Yeah. Since most of it was still footage I could edit frame-by-frame. I just felt that line sounded better in red.

Every socialist imageboard needs its Jennyposting. It just wouldn't be right without it.

>>587
I'm in this screenshot. hooray!

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>>581
While I don't want to promote the idea that non-violence is the only 'correct' approach, mockery really is psychologically powerful, both as an attack and a defense. Clown counter-protesting has a long history for a good reason. Especially since fascism has such an emphasis on regimented order, aesthetics and masculinity, simple mockery is even more effective because of it.
I haven't given bookrel a full reading yet, so I can't comment on its thesis, but it gives a glance into the long history of making fun of Nazi horror, outside of the usual British and US propaganda many of us are already familiar with. I assume there's an important difference between a regime just being a politcal designated enemy versus being an occupying force one can't just look away from.
(You can download it from Anna's Archive and other shadow libraries, it's too large to upload here)

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>>594
>(You can download it from Anna's Archive and other shadow libraries, it's too large to upload here)
Thanks comrade, +1 for AA. Saw it mentioned in /λ/ and it's beautiful.

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>>493
>Things like how to ask for help effectively, how to write a date properly, how to use a subject field on a website instead of writing "help! im a noob!!", basic media and statistical literacy, simple things like that.
I don't know what the cause is, whether it's systematic issues with education or laziness or culture shock or just random mental conditions in the population, but the bottom line is that so many people are stupid.
Just fucking stupid. Beyond functional, even if they're sane and literate. They're ultimately a drain on a conversation or a drain on resources. Simple instructions are beyond their grasp.
It's frustrating and disheartening, it really is, especially when you can tell they care about something enough to try and write out an opinion but put it in the trash can instead of the feedback box, no matter how clear the labels are. I've seen this kind of stuff happen in multiple different jobs and hobbies, including technical jobs where one would be forgiven for assuming the people there are intelligent.

>>621 *
And I don't know if it's society, childhood malnutrition, chronic sleep deprivation or just plain carelessness, but it can't be that there's no interest or desire.
I don't know the causes so I can't really do anything about it myself. Really, I'm just venting.

>>622
call me pollyana, but i think very few people are truly and constitutionally stupid. most people are simply incentivized to be careless and apathetic about anything unrelated to consumption or some kind of religious holdover like god or the family. caring for others, just thinking of them and their needs and how you might help fufill them, is an act of labor no matter how small. so too is thinking about large things that lack immediate pertinence. when you spend the majority of your waking hours laboring, and you've never seen anything of value accomplished through political organization, it almost becomes foolish to not act like a fool.

>>631
Maybe it is that fatigue of labouring all day and seeing little reward for it. In many jobs we're paid by hours and our product is so alienated from our lives that our labor is unrewarding, only our time is. So there's a systematic lesson being taught: why worry about quality in work, if it's not for someone you care about?
That said, I can't say that attitude is universal. At least where I am, people are generally still polite and will help others selflessly, at least for small and simple things. We're not a zombie infestation yet!

>>632
>At least where I am, people are generally still polite and will help others selflessly, at least for small and simple things.
it's the same here, and a part of what i'm getting at. the things that make a polite person (empathy, restraint, etc.) and the things that make an intelligent person (investigation, inference, etc.) are all discrete activities that require time and intentional focus. wage labor errodes your ability to do anything besides work because it monopolizes both your time and intentional effort for the majority of your waking hours. it doesn't completely destroy that capacity, but it makes it an uphill battle that gets watered down to everyday niceties and common courtesy.

>>566
>>633
Maybe this post should goes in the 'stupid shit by stupid people' thread but you've both reminded me: when someone (especially a culture-war-brained baby) calls socialists "economismist".

Without an economy allocating resources to us, we can't survive under capitalism. Of course it's essential to a political worldview.

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>>634
>when someone (especially a culture-war-brained baby) calls socialists "economismist".
I think I've seen this once, like when they say 'the economy isn't the most important thing, what about [race crap/gender crap] destroying our society?'

Like comrade above said, when the economic system monopolizes your waking hours and the conditions of thriving, it dominates life. It dominates time, it dominates society and it dictates culture.
picrel: 2017 post about industrial capitalism dictating culture.

>>644
Professional athletes are celebrities. That post makes me think about the alienation of celebrityism.
Now, I'm the wrong person to be talking about celebrities because I just don't understand it. I really don't know how someone can care so consistently about irrelevant people shoved in their face by mass media like a badly-written film. But an important concept is how celebrities are considered above others, their social circles tend to be distinct and alien from their communities. We are guided into praising (or perhaps hating but still valuing) people who have no interaction with us and are ultimately mostly expendable. Who should we be idolizing? Good teachers and doctors, perhaps, or helpful volunteers in our communities. People who do meaningful work which is right to glorify. I don't even say efficient workers, at least generally, just because as >>637 said most work under capitalism isn't worth celebrating. It's selling yourself to let someone accumulate capital.

How do you get a society to orient away from mass media hypnosis?

>>619
Yeah based Anna is a lifesaver. Much better than trying each library individually.